I love Mark's question and I have a good feeling about Razoo because of their Speed Granting collaboration with Facebook.

I have really warm feelings about Razoo and the staff there. That's not a question, but I wouldn't mine you giving them some positive feedback.

One of the really powerful things about Razoo is they make so many pages there subcribeable via RSS. The "What's New in Your World" feature has gotten lots of knocks for overload. I'm not really into Twitter, but the feature has a Twitter feel to it and which I find useful. Something I'm trying to do is to manage the information overload at multiple sites by aggregating RSS feeds. It works well with Razoo, except for the "What's New in Your World" doesn't update frequently where I send it.

It maybe a really big technical thing to get that feed to refresh frequently. But it would be useful for me if it did. So my question would be "Can you make the RSS feed for the What's New in Your World refresh more often, or make it so it can be updated?

I agree with Meron; while there is a nice feel to some aspects of Razoo, it seems incredibly fragmented - isolated...well put. There's no real meat - more resembles a string of profile pages linked together. A directory of sorts.

Unlike the o/net->ned "platform," which is a well-developed discussion board UI first and foremost, and then it's got some nice community linking capabilities as well and a good amount of transparency.

It would be interested to see how the best of both worlds could come together...? Hmmm...what would a <nedzoo> offspring look like..??! ;-)

There is something very available about the structure of the ned o/net interface that i haven't found so effective with other sites. Is it just my sense of habit? I think it may be something more. This system fosters dialogue and can enable action rather than just being a place where one affiliates...

That said, I think also of wiserearth, which has perhaps the grandest mission of all, but which does not have a sticky forum system. So what is the secret sauce that makes this system work? you all? Points, which can be love bombs?

>>So what is the secret sauce that makes this system work? you all?<<

Bingo. The people.

I really would like to see a discussion of interacting with Razoo from the point of view of how Ned.com as a network might interact with Razoo.com as a network. It seems the mores of Ned are emerging. Is the best thing for me to start a new thread for that discussion? Or should that discussion run along in this thread?

I re Chris Macrea's opportunity to chat with the 12 member Razoo team, I'm curious how Geneva Global sees their Razoo property? How does it fit with their mission and business plan?

Mark Grimes said:

>>So what is the secret sauce that makes this system work? you all?<<

Bingo. The people.

It is the people; and it's building on a collective history but it's more than that. I really do think the tools - the user interface, the bulletin board structure, the open/transparency, the "do-good" mission - here are excellent. And having worked in the early years of my career doing online network design/development, I do think that another aspect of success pivots largely upon the ability to advance from the 'cool' factor to the 'tool' factor. In other words, think about the evolution of people using the Internet. For example, I've been online since 1990 - starting with proprietary, customized BBS (Globalink - the online network for tobacco control and public health advocacy). Talk about a group with a mission! There wasn't any Web, the interface was text based and it sucked compared to what we've got now. But it was an incredible way to link public health workers around the world and they could build common strategies and unite against the big tobacco companies. And it was wildly successful. Compare that model to say something like Facebook - it's a social network - and yes it's fun, but too much time is spent playing with the technology - it's all about the toys and cuteness and the "wow, cool" factor. And in my opinion, all that gets in the way.

So a big hurdle, I think, is getting Internet users to move beyond coolness and being awed by bells n whistles (or becoming annoyed/preoccupied with them - as some did on o/net) to the place where they use technology for a reason, for a tool.

And I think somewhere in there lies the secret sauce.

So Soylent Green is people, and the Secret Sauce is people.

I may need to rethink this.

I'll take Michele Lifshen Reing's post as a signal it's okay to talk here about how Razoo and Ned might interact.

Michele makes a good point about the "tool factor." Ned.com has really great tools. But along with such a robust tool set comes a fairly steep learning curve and a commensurate dedication to learn it.

One of the good things about Razoo is most people who go there are already familiar with the face-model of social software sites. So there's not so much for them to learn and they can just go there and do things.

I like Razoo and believe that members at Ned doing great things may well find it useful to have a presence at Razoo too.

Something that Razoo has right in the tool set is that most of the pages have RSS feeds. The "What's New in Your World" feed has a Twitter feel to it. Also the idea of "your world" is very much a part of the feel of these face-model communities. It's what you opt-in to that counts.

Right now it doesn't seem to me that Razoo has a good way of aggregating the RSS feeds at the site. I'm using NetVibes to aggregate my feeds from Razoo. The nice thing about using a 3rd party site is it's easy to include related feeds in the tab there that I'm aggregating Razoo content. For example I'm subscribed to Michael Maranda's Wrythings blog. He's feeding posts from that blog to his blog at Razoo, so that's not a great example of efficiency on my part. But the point remains that related feeds to Razoo can be aggregated with 3rd party software. Michael sending his feed to his blog at Razoo however is an example of making content available there efficiently.

I'm not feeling isolated at Razoo because I'm getting feeds of people's activity there. That's why the What's New in My World feed not updating often is a problem for me.

My points in summary are: Ned requires an engagement that not everyone will be willing to invest. Razoo is familiar to the way many people engage in social networks. RSS feeds allow efficient handling of information from within Razoo and an efficient way to direct meaningful information to the members there.

>>I'll take Michele Lifshen Reing's post as a signal it's okay to talk here about how Razoo and Ned might interact.<<

Yeah...it's okay to interact...it already has...

just the chance to dial things in...

• Alex Steffen (World Changing) and I met at online at Omidyar.net almost three years ago and have since met quite a few times in both Seattle and Portland. Alex Steffen has been the Executive Editor of Worldchanging since he co-founded the organization in 2003, as the next phase in a lifetime of work exploring ways of building a better future. In a very short time, Worldchanging has become the most widely-read sustainability-related publication on the Internet, with an archive of over 7,000 articles by leading thinkers around the world. Steffen was also the editor of Worldchanging's wildly successful first book, Worldchanging: A User's Guide for the 21st Century (Abrams, 2006), a 600-page compendium of writings from over sixty noted leaders around the world.
• Paul Hawken (Wiser Earth) was someone Callum Grieve from the Marion Institute suggested I meet well over a year ago. I finally met him in Portland for a WiserEarth event just before the release of his fantastic book Blessed Unrest. I've spent some time with Paul online helping with their site and hope to get to meet again someday soon. WiserEarth serves as a community directory and networking forum that maps and connects non-governmental organizations and individuals addressing the central issues of our day; climate change, poverty, the environment, peace, water, hunger, social justice, conservation, human rights and more.
• Ray King (About Us) moved from New York to Portland, Oregon to co-found Snapnames and he and I were on the founding board of directors together. Snapnames was recently acquired by another company and Ray has started his third organization AboutUS, a wiki site whose goal is to create a free and valuable Internet resource containing information both about websites and other community created topics. The site was pre-populated with information about many different websites and thousands of updates are now being made by people each day.
• Sebastian Traeger (Razoo) was introduced to me by Thomas Kriese from the Omidyar Network recently. Sebastian and I spent some time on the phone and I gave him some initial thoughts and perspectives after having spent three years as a very active member in a "better world" network. Looking forward to meeting him and connecting again sometime soon. Razoo is one of the places o/net members are migrating to (along with AboutUs, WiserEarth, and Ned) The mission at Razoo is simple: to promote social good and to inspire others to get involved by making giving and serving fun, easy, and meaningful.

So, far as I know, I know all four...and they don't know one another...yet. What's this mean? We'll see.

Mark, t's great that you know all four. There must be synergies to be gained. You'll think of something good, I'm sure.

David Bale talked about how he planned to use Razoo and AboutUs for various components of his WWC planning. Perhaps not so much a question for Chris Macrea to convey, but simply that many users of Razoo will be looking for ways to build useful synergies there.

Razoo has some potential but to get my participation it would have to greatly improve the discussion feature and the isolated feel of the space.

I whole-heartedly echo Meron's comment. I have a suspicion that planning and initial collaboration will take place on Ned, but we'll need a site like Razoo (easy interface, etc.) to reach large numbers of people and make an impact. I think that both TEN and Peace Tiles are at a stage in their development where they could use Razoo as a powerful user base; other ventures that are earlier in development might need some refining and polishing here before reaching out there. Anyway, not sure if that makes sense or if people agree.

You could be right Luke but, like Meron, I felt that the space was empty of something - maybe humanity or humour or maybe just content in depth.

I must admit that on Razoo I felt like a very small kid wandering around looking for buttons to press so that I could watch the bells and whistles.

And, as a long time supporter of Amnesty Iternational, I felt rather insulted that it was a listed among the prolieration of causes that I could join .... but the Amnesty International page had nothing on it except an introductory Wiki and a link to a petition.

There was no link to the Amnesty web site and no prompt to take up membership. Just the vague empty feeling that if I had pressed the 'join' button I would have done no more than collect another cause to list on my personal page.

I would have made no commitment to Amnesty but this new 'cause' would register in my personal Razoo 'good cause' trophy cabinet without any need to justify my commitment by subjecting myself to the questioning of inconsistent and unjoined thinking that we're all used to here.

what is the secret sauce that makes this system work?

It's first and foremost that when you post a comment people respond.

The reason people respond is because they see that you have posted. It's on your "Recent Discussions", it's on "What's New", it's on their own "Recent Discussions" in bold because something has been added. It may be on their "Watch List". It may show up other places too. People might link to your comment from other threads. This software is amazing at getting you noticed.

Then the other ingredient is what the people say, the context, etc. But lots of sites have great people with fascinating things to say. You don't get a response though, when you write something.

John Powers said:

I really would like to see a discussion of interacting with Razoo from the point of view of how Ned.com as a network might interact with Razoo.com as a network.

If I understand what you are saying, this is a great point, John. Each one of the platforms has their own strengths and weaknesses. To "mash up" the two of them is a great idea, but involves technical work that would best be suited to such folks as the Source Tree Commons. However, since our networks already have a fairly strong overlap, we could initiate an exploration of how to collaborate among those networks.

One approach would be to talk with Razoo management and see if they are interested in such collaboration. Another approach would be to just start a series of Ned causes on Razoo (Ned Uganda, Ned Thailand etc.), and a Ned group to tie them all together.

While this kind of multi-platform approach is a bit clutzy, it is working after a fashion with our Network Weavers Network.

Rory Turner said:

That said, I think also of wiserearth...

WiserEarth is an extremely important resource. And, over time, there will be a growing number of ways to interact with this and the other Wiser resources.

The simplest way is to just begin using the Areas of Focus as tags in our own organizing. Wiser has put a great deal of effort into designing this taxonomy, and it's the heart of their system. See http://www.wiserearth.org/aof/br owse

A more involved way is to develop a "portal" on Wiser Earth. I'm not sure if there are any in place yet for the public. I'll try to find out and let folks know.

And AboutUs

And World Changing

:-)

Mark Grimes said:

So, far as I know, I know all four (WorldChanging, AboutUs, Razoo, WiserEarth.)...and they don't know one another...yet. What's this mean? We'll see.

I'm not sure that they don't know one another. Jon Ramer, for example, is closely connected with Wiser (I believe he organized the event in Portland that you attended, and, as far as I know, he's still heading up the Wiser Commons), and he knows WorldChanging, AboutUs, and you (with Ned). He may well know Razoo as well -- he tends to be very plugged into this sort of thing.

John also started a Cooperation Studies class that I participated in, and is a member of an ongoing practice group.

I think the challenge is a combination of attention (there is a LOT going on, so how do we know what do focus on?) and practice in learning how to collaborate effectively.

I don't think any of us (myself included!) have yet learned how to do so very well. It is a great challenge, for a lot of reasons. One of them is our own agendas -- which may be very different. Another is our styles. Etc.

On the other hand, at this point in our planet's development, I think to be successful we must learn how to collaborate more effectively.

So, I suggest using this as an opportunity to practice. I (and probably some of our other Network Weavers such as John Powers and David Braden) would probably be happy to help support connections between Ned and Razoo (and Wiser).

Please let us know how we can be of service, ok? We'll try to be of help.

Mark Grimes said:

And AboutUs

And World Changing

:-)

Isn't it wonderful how we're all working together separately :-)

Steve, I agree with your points about 'causes' on Razoo and groups (or threads) on <Ned> but, if my criticisms about lack of depth on Razoo hold up, then I would suggest that the process should be the other way round i.e. start the discussion/thread here and attract contributors (not blind or passive supporters) through 'Causes' on Razoo.

Engage them (if only in debate) and give them something to do or something to join. Build meaningful commitment !

I'd also like to add that although I've referred to Amnesty International (as an example) above I think it's an important distinction that <Ned> focuses independently on discursive issues rather than being clogged up with some of the spoon fed 'cut and paste' releases from established organisations that The Other Place experienced and that I also suspect Razoo will experience on its open Causes pages.

Figuring out direction flows in many-to-many media makes my head spin. I suspect that the ways in which participants here at <Ned> and participants at Razoo locate one another will work in both directions.

I was impressed to sign in at Razoo today to see that Linda Nowakowski had posted an "Act" of watching Aiyttey's Cheetah Vs. Hippos Ted talk. Linda made a transcript of the talk for Christina Jordan. Linda mentioned that she had made a transcript. I've tried making transcripts of videos and it's such slow going. Linda's transcript is valuable information.

The Acts are a great part of Razoo. Whenever people go there they at least see acts that others have done. It helps to create the habit of imagining what each of us can do. Also in publishing the act, Linda let it be known she had some valuable information--a transcript. It probably didn't take too much of her time, but in doing so she's amplifying the effect of her work here at <Ned>.

Steve Habib Rose suggested that I was suggesting a mash-up between Razoo and <Ned>. I really wasn't thinking that way, rather simply the people in the <Ned> network interacting with people in the Razoo network. I'm not very good about using the terms: network, community, platforms with precision.

If I don't imagine a formal mash-up, I do imagine using tools that sort of mash-up content. I'm very slow at this because I know so little about computing. But I've found NetVibes handy. It's useful to me because I have a Facebook module there as well as my tabs with Razoo feeds. So from a homepage I can check in on activity at Facebook, Razoo, my Gmail and Google Groups, Flickr, my de.li.cious tags, etc. I signed up for Mashable.com but really haven't figured out how to use it yet, but it seems similar.

The various sites that allow mash-ups of sorts seem a part of the mix. While NetVibes basically is a service for creating personal homepages, it also has the feature of creating "Universes." If I understand it correctly all that means is that using the Tabs feature people or groups can create pages of feeds which are public.

One way of looking at it is Razoo, <Ned>, WiserEarth, AboutUs, etc. are competing for people's attention. It's interesting however that the kind of attention these platforms are vying for is not like a consumer product. These platforms rely on engagement, consuming and creating content. And rather than competing for an "established audience" all of these platforms are intend to help enlarge the number of participants to make good things happen all around.

As individuals we can't be everywhere. But given differences in styles and interests the overlapping will probably be good for all of these platforms.

While Mark's question about "creative ideas on ways for networks to meaningfully collaborate together?" Is a very good one. My sense is that people within the various network, using the different tool sets, will come up with very creative ways. But it would sadden me if Chris Macrae came back form the meeting and discovered Razoo leadership suffering under a "scarcity" model of competitive advantage.

>>But it would sadden me if Chris Macrae came back form the meeting and discovered Razoo leadership suffering under a "scarcity" model of competitive advantage.<<

I would be pretty surprized, I certainly didn't get that feeling when chatting with Sebastian on the phone. (which was pre-Ned launch, but I did speak with him about Ned in that chat as well)