:Title: advance plans to change capitalism with muhammad yunus :Author: chris macrae :Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:32:40 PST :Modified: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 05:52:26 PDT :URL: http://www.ned.com/group/community-general/news/90/ map of cities booktour, supporters clubs: where: http://grameen.tv/_wsn/page17.html 1 london aims to provide a journey any city can share: January : Cross-cultural expert at Aga Khan uni encourages birth of Ad Hoc Social Action Committee London 10 jan 450 world entrepreneurs form first book club of yunus http://wes08.net -join in the the first 1000 bookclub of Yunus hi-trust capitalism flow activists http://smbaworld.com/id8.html .. raw:: html 21-24 jan transaltantic exchange - london-bolivian, london-caribbean, london-Eastern European, London-Iranian and I) travel to New York to host with New-York Brit collaboration cafes with DR Yunus:
  • 1) Is Future Capitalism a Bangladesh-only development game
  • 2) How scandalous are orphan drigs and malaria net monopolies aided by UN?
  • 3) other collaboration Q&A
    • and to film tough questions being posed by 9 year old http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKXXsINFoHQ .. raw:: html 15 feb: yunus gives public lecture at LSE -transcript ; Bangladeshi world leading microeconomists class of 1944 and 1967 host lunch in Royal Automobile Club St James for 30 cross-cultural cultivators of Entrepreneurial Revolution, reporting by WorldEntrepreneurNet 16 feb: St James' Chrurch Picadilly 2.30pm 17 feb Bristol spring: Yunus gives 2 hours of his time to celebrate community rising projects with 1000 Londoners - Yunus1000 Forum London - a model other cities are invited to open source 21 april: chat in london with Dr Yunus on lovingly tease GB the bolder the better http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klUu03EMeRs festivals of collaboration cafes http://collaborationcafe.tv are held each season and from 1 October08 the greenest 200 person debating space arrives on London's South bank for sustainability debates to continue until citizens have deep contextual answers for turning every lose-lose-lose globalsiation system round to win-win-win (editors transparency comment- sorty to say photosynthesis networks worldwide have now failed us 3 times running in developing this southbank space first slated to appaear spring 2007- I for one will be demanding the return of my 25000 pounds of social business loans made to this network; its not that photosyhteis and solar isnt the only energy future I can believe in, its just I cant myself impact this tenchibnally conflicted world of scientists, businesses and noisy ecologists; conversely all other colaboration cafe networks appear to be gaining from youth interactions out of cities in every hemisphere http://collaborationcafe.blogspot.com ) action projects are hubbed all round town and connect live summits, cafes, and virtual platforms including the new ashokan one http://www.justmeans.com 2 us book http://www.publicaffairsbooks.com/publicaffairsbooks-cgi-bin/display?book=9781586484934 tour on future of capitalism visits 10+ cities starting 2nd week of jnauary in new york how: can we develop peer to peer training of yunus' social ABC A is for social Action - any 3 people can commit to a social action for a year- yunus is building a web where you can register a socila action and make a diary of its ups and downs B is for social Business- this gets a one time loan from investors; must develop its 100% cashflow model; repay at zero interest those who loaned to it; they get the reputational kudos of starting up an organisation serving a vital hman purpose C is for Capitalism's Future http://www.ned.com/group/community-general/news/90/11/ and Citizen EmPowerment sans frontier http://www.simpol.org http://peoplepower.jp -that which values social businesses every relationship as much as those that only extract profits- by this time capitalism and economics has been changed to recognise that helathy societies generate strong economies not vice versa CELEBRATION OF HUMANITY I second the view of Yunus that the human being has infinte potentia but we are measuring it as finite and boxing in what networking could have made the greatest innovation flows. So did my father in 1984 when writing in nearly his 40th year at The Economist he forecast te need for a Nobel prize winner in 2008 to inspire the world to get hunting for 30000 replicable community up projects - that is if future sustanability is to be the human lot The Yunus brand already empowers the most valuable projects and franchise models serving humanity. Its just that coming from the origins of microcredit banking there is as yet low citizen awareness of everyone can collaborate in community-building aroung yunus. Why not make Yunus-styled Social dynamics the worldwide goodwill multiplier of 2008 and regain human sustainability? chris macrae 02 http://www.valuetrtue.com ... 07 http://grameen.tv http://erworld.tv http://worldcitizen..tv http://worldclassbrands.tv http://peacecentury.tv http://worldentrepreneur.net 08 http://egrameen.com http://smbaworld.com http://futurecapitalism.tv http://wholeplanet.tv http://yunusuni.com http;//microglobal.tv http://microcredit.tv washington dc bureau tel 301 881 1655 ---- **Comments** :Author: chris macrae :Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:38:12 PST extract from new yunus book http://www.publicaffairsbooks.com/publicaffairsbooks-cgi-bin/display?book=9781586484934 Social Action - could this be a viral wave of our life and times? what do you think? Yunus writes: Having a dream about a better world is fun. Why not interact to help make the reality closer too? My suggestion: create a small organisation we call a Social Action Forum. It can be as small as three people who band together to address a single, manageable local problem. If others want to join that’s fine. But if you feel comfortable with three, don’t try to expand that number I am planning to create a website where you can register your social action forum. On the website, you can describe your plan for the year, record you thoughts, mention the frustrations and excitement of your work, show the progress you are making, and display pictures relating to your project. To start a Forum –all you need is the willingness and initiative to make a difference. You might start a forum around a neighbourhood improvement. Or if you live in a developing country, the action forum might be built around helping a beggar find a job or self-employment. Some social action forums may remain small, operate for 2 or 3 years and then disband. Others may grow bigger and bigger, and some may become successful businesses.. An idea from one forum may inspire other forums to replicate the idea. A few forums may grow into major programs with the potential to transform societies. Aside from launching a Social Action Forum, there are may steps that individuals can take to help promote the social-business idea. If you are a teacher, you could help launch a course to teach young business people about social business. If you are a member of a civic or faith group, you could help arrange a series of lectures, meetings or conferences about opportunities for social businesses in your community. If you help to oversee a pension fund, you can propose that part of those resources be set aside to invest in social business. And of course, if you are a business executive, you can explain to your CEO the value of creating a social business. One way to generate social business ideas is to host competitions. Any organisation or person can sponsor such a competition: a school, a foundation, a chamber of commerce, a civic group and so on. I can picture local, regional and even global competitions with hundreds of thousands of participants vying to create the most practical, ambitious and exciting concepts for social business. Prizes for the best business designs could include investment funding for the project, or connections to social investors. All the proposals submitted could be published on the internet to inspire the designers of subsequent competitions or to provide ideas for entrepreneurs who want to start social businesses. I have been promoting the idea of a social-business competition for a while, and now the Taiwanese magazine Business Weekly has announced such a competition. It has raised $1.5 million to provide seed money for the top 10 submissions, which will be announced November 2007. I am absolutely delighted by this initiative. ---- :Author: Linda Nowakowski :Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:37:36 PST November 2007 has come and gone. Does anyone know what happened with the competition? ---- :Author: Gayle Rogers :Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:23:41 PST Or where November went? (Oh and Hi Chris ... hope all is very well in your patch.) ---- :Author: chris macrae :Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 15:09:05 PST poor old taiwan : its getting a tardy rap on lots of stuff- eg I am still waiting for my $100 laprop meanwhile back in london: Ideas being experimented in london after week 1 of introduction of yunus book London proposes to form an ad hoc Social Action Committee Londoners demand to know why Grameen isn’t allowed to issue its own lines of credit given it has loan repayment statistics that must be the envy of banks all over the world Now that chapter 1 explains why old ways of responding to sustainability crises were doomed to failure. A series of brainstorming sessions on the new wave is being convened ---- :Author: Lilly Evans :Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 13:19:21 PST For those here who may be able to join us, please note that there are a number of events in London from 14th to 16th of February where Dr Yunus will be talking about his new book. LSE is organising a lecture on 15th February and you need to book a ticket directly at their website tomorrow (7th February from 10am). The other event is held on Saturday 16th February and more information about it is listed below - including how to book. Creating a World without Poverty Social Business and the Future of Capitalism Nobel Peace Prize winner Dr. Muhammad Yunus will speak at St. James’s Church, 197 Piccadilly on Saturday, Feb. 16th at 2.30pm. His latest book Creating a World without Poverty – Social Business and the Future of Capitalism was recently launched in the US and the UK and is already in position 18 of the New York Times bestseller list. After having been invited to the World Economic Forum in Davos, Bill Gates called for a ‘kinder capitalism’. Yunus’ definition of ‘social business’ uses the creative vibrancy of enterprise to tackle social problems from poverty and pollution to inadequate health care and lack of education. When entrepreneurs pursue social objectives rather than profit, we have a pioneering model for nothing less than a new, more human form of capitalism that bridges between profit motivation and philanthropic investment. To book a ticket (£6, conc. £4) please visit the payment page ( http://www.letslink.org/fsc/register.php ) of the Forum for Stable Currencies or phone Lilly Evans on 01344 842 418. ---- :Author: chris macrae :Date: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:20:14 PST :Modified: Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:22:28 PST Perhaps it is only fitting that Dr Yunus has helped the French to rediscover enetrepreneurial revolution. Originally coined around 1800 (between take) involved debating whether having chopped off the head of royalty whose over-control of resources prevmnted the people from having opportunities to be productive, would France's next constitution empower people to be more productive in serving each others needs? .. raw:: html
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    • the video shows the first multinational social business Grameen Danone; earlier this week Grameen Credit Agricole was announced; in today's FT we have this french corker: The fall of a financial model By Jean-Louis Beffa and Xavier Ragot Published: February 21 2008 17:26 | Last updated: February 21 2008 17:26 Recent changes in the world economy and financial markets mark the end of the present standard model of financial capitalism, built up over the last decade or so. In this model, financial stability is mainly based on the self-regulation of the financial sector, which alone assesses the risks produced by its financial innovations. Moreover, the link between finance and the real economy hinges on an adequate return on investment for shareholders, who punish poor management by making share prices fall, leaving the company open to takeover. The only role assigned to governments is to guarantee free circulation of capital between companies and between countries. As alternative economic models collapsed over the past two decades, public opinion came to accept this model of financial capitalism. Today, governments and labour unions accept profit as the most relevant criterion for assessing a company’s efficiency. This model is experiencing three crises, all of which refer to changes in the relationship between governments and markets. The first concerns the significant, yet silent, return of governments to the economic playing field. Three of the five richest nations by total gross domestic product have become de facto neo-mercantilist, setting their sights on trade surpluses. China is keeping its currency artificially low in order to increase its trade surplus and lower its costs of production vis-a-vis competitor countries. Japan is pursuing government-oriented policies to bolster its position in high-technology markets. Finally, and to a lesser degree, Germany has been carrying out reforms to restore industrial competitiveness. In addition, countries that have access to natural resources, notably oil and gas, have revenues that serve as both an instrument and aim of their international policy. Trade surpluses have resulted, demonstrating the capacity of governments to acquire massive amounts of foreign assets through sovereign wealth funds. The problems that arise are not economic, but political. Governments may use technology transfer or control of strategic national assets as a means to increase bargaining power in international affairs. The second change involves company ownership. Three transformations should be noted. The first relates to the emergence of active shareholders, who build up significant stakes with the aim of exerting strong influence on management. The second relates to activist shareholders and their demand for short-term returns, resulting in decisions that are not in the company’s long-term interests. The third involves leveraged buy-outs, closely linking the interests of managers and shareholders and taking advantage of easy credit. These shifts in the distribution of power raise questions: what is the relationship between shareholder meetings and boards? To what extent should companies be allowed to protect themselves from hostile bids or creeping takeovers? In what form and how frequently should accounting information be provided to shareholders? Company ownership has not yet found a new balance, as shown in Europe by the absence of agreement on the takeover directive and on one share/one vote rather than multiple voting rights. Regulators’ desire to increase supervision of creeping takeovers is telling. The trends are risky: a shareholder can pursue speculative or self-interested aims to the detriment of other shareholders and against the company’s best interest by breaking up the business or by avoiding taking risk. The third crisis is the one rocking financial markets. Unlike the internet bubble, this is not a crisis based on irrational behaviour but one of sophistication and disintermediation. The new risks produced by financial innovation were left to a sector that alone was considered able to understand its instruments. The crisis demonstrates the costs to the real economy and lack of an efficient self-regulating system. All these risks call for a new relationship between the workings of financial markets and regulatory actions of governments. Democratic governments will have to deal for a long time with less democratic economies that use financial market mechanisms for political ends. Each sovereign investor must clarify its intentions and define its code of conduct. Governments must also define with greater precision the sectors they consider strategic. The changes in company ownership also call for greater transparency in order to prevent actions that offend business ethics, such as creeping takeovers and speculative strategies that undermine companies’ long-term interests. The board’s role of defining solutions that satisfy shareholders’ divergent interests will have to be strengthened. It should allow for corporate governance that encourages long-term strategies while satisfying shareholder interests. Finally, regulators should supervise the whole of financial markets to assess systemic risk, eliminate off-balance-sheet ambiguities and bring within the scope of supervision actors that have eluded market authorities. How governments deal with these crises will depend on their national interests. These issues will be difficult to deal with in Europe where country responses will diverge. One can expect to see the co-existence of various models, varying by level of government intervention in financial markets. There is a great distance, however, between co-existence and compatibility. Jean-Louis Beffa is chairman of Saint-Gobain and co-president of the Cournot Centre for Economic Studies. Xavier Ragot is associate professor at the Paris School of Economics ---- :Author: Chris Cook :Date: Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:13:25 PST Hi Chris It's not a bad article, but entirely predicated on the Company aka "Corporation" as being the only form of corporate life. Which it is not. Companies are (leaving any ethical consideration to one side) at best dysfunctional, and whether "For Profit" or "Not for Profit", always have a conflict of interest between the "owners" and their agents, the directors/managers. This "Principal/Agency" problem is most of the reason why we need Company Law, and is a large part of the reason for that oxymoron, "Corporate Social Responsibility". There's another way of getting to Dr Yunus's "Social Business" model and the "Company" has no part in it. It requires the use of new partnership-based entities such as the US LLC and the UK LLP, and the simple thought that it is in fact possible to raise finance in a "non-toxic" way by "unitising" (ie proportional "shares" or units) either in production itself (eg energy) or in the revenues from the sale of production, and then proportionally sharing the flows of production as between the "Investor" and the user of Investment. Simple, and revolutionary. In this model, there is no room for "rentiers" who make money purely out of money, and in fact in this model "Social Business" can "out-compete" conventional business for the very reason that they have the "Cooperative Advantage" of not having to pay returns to "rentiers". Best Regards Chris Cook chris macrae said: Perhaps it is only fitting that Dr Yunus has helped the French to rediscover enetrepreneurial revolution. Originally coined around 1800 (between take) involved debating whether having chopped off the head of royalty whose over-control of resources prevmnted the people from having opportunities to be productive, would France's next constitution empower people to be more productive in serving each others needs? in today's FT we have this french corker: The fall of a financial model ---- :Author: chris macrae :Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 14:32:01 PST :Modified: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 05:11:31 PDT chris oddly enough chapter 1 of yunus book does an inquest on 4 of the most dominant end 20th century org typologies: corporation, government, global charities/NGOs and development elite (eg world bank UN) and points out that none is relentlessly audited to end poverty or compound any of the rights voted for worldwide as starting off millennial 3; this essential open source book - uniting debates between sustainability investors - then maps an ABC of models -each chosen with trigonometric simplicity- through which we (transparently curious teams from youth up) can reblend or redefine organizational typologies- at the core of yunus argument is: business is governed by quarterly cycles- whatever you make as the number 1 flow goal of success organisation-wide takes over and exponentially compounds what consequences that system is capable of futurising- so this is extraordinarily powerful as a "pure logic" system but also perfect maths for ending human sustainability if the only globalisation systems playing this game are those who reward their top people by how much money do they extract from everyone else every 90 days- for example what has half of the money of American people been compounded round between 2001-2208; mathematicians can do the sums: arms carbon intensive industries getting people into debt making healthcare doubly expensive and lower basic quality than any other developed nation the last quarter of 2008 and the first quarter of 2009 are the greatest change world opportunities the people of USA will likely ever have a chance to turn round from lost sustainability to a future capitalism in which goodwill is mapped every quarter truly instead of being desecrated by 90 days quarterly profits extraction; I have to say that 50 experts took this same issue to the top of the incoming administration in quarter 1 of 2001; explained how governing the world's largest corporation by unseen wealth would compound untold risks all over the planet and were demoted from places like Georgetown and Brookings to universities like Vanderbilt- this dismal mathematician crisis has synonyms to unseen wealth which include intangibles crisis , transparency crisis as in the use of the word mapped by don tapscott, and sustainability investment crisis; in other words no western gravitated network has succeeded in turning this huge maths mistake around, let's hope that an eastern gravitated one now inspires the whole of usa youth even more than the ending of apartheid 1.0 in south Africa of the 1980s ===== previous reply to chris: yes some of us have discussing what it takes to start small or medium social businesses in the UK In debates among interested peers we see three legs to rehearse: 1 do you have an idea that is a compelling social business- that marries a useful social need with some group who will also pay for it; do you have some collaboration model to share resources so that you don’t have to start everything as a separate box 2 how do you validate that you will get to 100% cash flow model by testing small; what loan and payback period are you really going to need 3 how do you structure yourself legally as an LLP? the problem for many people who are already dedicated to social purposes is 3; the time and potential cost of this seems out of proportion to the other elements we keep on asking ourselves is there a way to share an LLP structure or is there an LLP adviser who would give us a group advice rate rather than charge fees separately any experiences on this would be good to hear; I imagine beyond the UK, the form of incorporation changes from LLp but 3 may still be a disproportionately costly step ---- :Author: Chris Cook :Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:41:43 PST Chris To answer your questions 2 how do you validate that you will get to 100% cashflow model by testing small; what loan and payback period are you generally going to need In the "Capital Partnership" approach there is no loan, and "payback" is optional as a form of "share buy-back". It doesn't matter what legal form the entity takes which requires finance - they simply become a member of an LLP (cost to set up £20.00) as a "Capital User" member, alongside the Investor/ "Capital provider" member. The deal is that for as long as the capital/investment is used a "Capital Rental" is paid consisting of a proportional share in production or revenues from sale of production. Note that the return may be in "money's worth" ( as opposed to money) and likewise the investment can be in "money's worth" too, for instance land or "sweat equity" labour. Simple, but radical, and in fact such "Capital Partnerships" even predate Islam, which knows them as the form of Islamic finance called "musharakah". Just to repeat - this is NOT a loan, but a simple new form of "micro investment". 3 how do you structure yourself legally as an LLP? the problem for many people who are already dedicated to social purposes is 3; the time and potential cost of this seems out of proportion to the other elements Dead simple. It costs £20.00 to set one up, and the agreement says anything the members consensually agree: it need not even be in writing, although I would not recommend that where assets are involved. It combines the best features of limited companies with the best of partnership. we keep on asking ourselves is there a way to share an LLP structure or is there an LLP adviser who would give us a group advice rate rarther than charge feesd separately Most accountants and lawyers are becoming familiar with LLP's but tend to use them as Limited Company clones, which is a bit unimaginative. I don't know any who use the generic template I have developed. I suspect I am the only pure LLP specialist in the UK (although I know a couple of lawyers very familiar with them). any experiences on this would be good to hear; I imagine beyond the UK, the form of incorporation chnages from LLp but 3 may still be a disproprtionately costly step LLP's have now been introduced in Dubai, Qatar, Japan, and are due in India shortly. In the US they use LLC's. I've used LLP's across borders a couple of times, once to link a Scottish charity with a Pakistani NGO - the other time to finance a French chateau. We (Nordic Enterprise Trust) plan a pan-Nordic micro-finance LLP framework for our "Hanseatic Microfinance Initiative". Note that conventional micro credit in the form of loans plays no part in this initiative. We use: (a) "Micro investment" in "quasi equity" using production and revenue-sharing "Capital Partnerships"; and (b) mutualised guarantees of bilateral "trade" credit, using a "Guarantee Society" approach. In this model, there is no interest, but there is sharing of admin and default costs through provisions made into a "Default Fund". ---- :Author: chris macrae :Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 09:26:20 PST I am sorry can you take me back to te beginning suppose I start an LLP with 20 pounds do I have to file annaul reports/ or only once actual money flows happen? chris ---- :Author: chris macrae :Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 04:58:42 PST :Modified: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 05:03:13 PST I could do with help sorting through this search http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%2Bcompetition+%2B%22social+business%22&btnG=Google+Search on what competitions around the world are being staged on social business- Linda is I believe correct- taiwan it seemed let Yunus (book chpater 11) down having promised a competition which either hasnt happened or didnt happen on time; nonetheless almost every 1000 person talk yunus gives he suggests competitions of social business - note competitions he is talking about often dont need to be big; they can be micro and within your community; and often the greatest prize a community can award isnt about money its about colaborating around the prizewinners most human wish so I am quite interested in exploring what competitions with a collaboration purpose we can find -incidentally there has been lots of gos that Oprah is about to host a reality tv competition for philanthopists, anyone got news of that? http://africanidol.tv/ and if one day a year American Idol claims its song competition is for humanity, why the heck dont they put The Green Children http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22the+green+children%22+yunus&btnG=Search on stage on that day. Does this community have any connections in wishmaking that ever penetrate through tinsel town's borders ---- :Author: chris macrae :Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 04:38:01 PDT :Modified: Fri, 13 Jun 2008 04:47:14 PDT Mapping branches of capitalism vaut le voyage of 7 billion people and their children *** yunus teams future capitalism gates teams creative capitalsim mackeys' teams conscious capitalism ** novogratz's teams patient capitalism intrapreneur capitalism - origin circa 1980 : best current exponent branson virginunite =========================== please help us map others - in this thread or map@smbaworld.com subject capitalism ps as a scottish family http://macrae.tv whose clan missions have conmntinuosly been much influenced by french and other internationalists attempts to go beyond the failed system model of Empiredom of late 1700s English, we are wholly aware that the original capitalism maps of adam smith - and the reason why the word entrepreneur was originally coined in France circa 1800 assumed deep trust always governed business auditing as a compound prioritiy contextually deeper than how much money did we extract from the planet this quarter; we don't actually know whether it was michael porter, another harvard prof or some other american big buisness sponsored strategist or economist who first took over the word entrepreneur to advance non-sustainability of humanity as the primary (externalissation) metrics of incorporation, but whomever it was we wish they would stand up and explain themselves at an oxford union debate http://oxbridge.tv/_wsn/page3.html ---- :Author: Liam Cullen :Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 06:56:35 PDT Chris, Do you really believe that anyone takes the time to read your extended self indulgent diatribes??? I can to Ned cause I heard there was much being said about collobaration. You just talk and talk and talk and talk and post endless videos and stuff and like holy shit.. who has that much time and what do you do in your own world.... today I did the eulogy for a man who died alone. I invested in local microeconomics by paying for his funeral. What did you do? ---- :Author: Liam Cullen :Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 06:57:00 PDT oops hic.. I meant came to Ned. ---- :Author: chris macrae :Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2008 15:30:48 PDT :Modified: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 05:11:50 PDT liam- you obviously do in spite of promising that you never would again -how about a bookmark to the least self-indulgent comment you have ever contributed so we can all learn what it is you are about- you say for example that you despise opression and understand the insidious way in which it develops; I love gandhian explanations of oppression, do you; I have a particular inter-generational reason for loving those as my grandad was mentored for 25 yeras by gandhi in mumbai 1920-1940s; when I visit india http://clubofdelhi.blogspot.com or banglasdesh I feel the place has more common sense than when I sit in washington dc- that's very paradoxical isnt it; it makes me very unsure of which leaders are worth listening to for a second, particularly if my 11 year old asks who to believe in among all the noisy stuff on tv; which "leaders" in our midst, and compounding what globalisation connects, really care about responsibility of leadership to everyone as opposed to measuring perfomance dictated by ne powerful vested interest - I wish you would start a thread and tell us your model of how oppresion's insidious way develops; its pretty obvious "to me" mathematically that the extremes of both communism and capitalism are the same big brother oppression system that eg orwell mapped quite clearly; finding a system above these poles, just like finding a system above such one-dimensional reductions of democracy to left versus right or democratic verus republican is something I wish to explore through connecting links and data; but mathematics is just one lens to understanding why such an unatiral thing as opporession has reinged so long- what lens do you bring how to renew bipartisanship on cross-cultural let balone worldwide issues that can never be progressed by partisanship is: dare I say the number 1 debate that may ne ought to go on all over usa this summer-it wont the oppressive usa mass media would never empower any such thing; talk about not learing from history or reality: recently I was sitting in the woodrow wilson centre for bipartisan dilaogues watching the premiere of a film on the anti-apartheid movements of the 1980s; the last time youth in america networked to change partisan politics; what was so sad was all that energy having won one battle didnt continue on between peoples of goodwill in america and africa; http://www.transafricaforum.org/ - when I asked one of the most eloquent of black youths in the 1980s film , now in her middle age on the panel - where did all that flow go she almost cried- americans it seems go into issues believing that once they have proved to the world they can win one battle (be it woth their own president (in that case reagan) or another nation's), that's the end of the reconciliation game- there is no greater mistake any humanitarian network can make than believing you win reconcilaition once and for all; that is to be taken over by some image-led world with no gravity in generating rality whatsoever,imo again start your own thread on how you see oppression compounds over time- heaven knows we might find that somewhere we have a common agreement on what causes oppression or how to stop it but trying to oppress me or laughably telling me that I am oppressing you cos I insist (my freedom of speech as a mathematicain who believes that connecting data patterned by the same future logics is the best way to transparency we have in a noisy image-laden untrue (or at least one where all surveys show people's trust in each other is expoentially crashing) world ) that some threads around here be built on now blow by blow conversational models is a waste of time, space and probably chances to improve life for the poorest ---- :Author: Liam Cullen :Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2008 04:06:04 PDT ummm ahhh Chris... your quote ps as a scottish family http://macrae.tv whose clan missions have conmntinuosly been much influenced by french and other internationalists attempts to go beyond the failed system model of Empiredom of late 1700s English... you are the most self indulgent psuedo intellectual, dyslexic multi pumping posting blinkered twat that I've ever seen on a website.... man your posts are so diluted, convoluted full of crapola that the very people you suggest will be helped by all your verbage on macroeconomics could not hope to understand what the hell you are on about............ the very essence of self empowerment is being able to understand and control one's life, future, destiny. You just pump out confusing endless ( and sometimes startless) monologues with this belief that you are doing some divine piece of work. You are not. You are producing masses of waste matter. What was your question??? Oh yes, what do I stand for? I'll get back to you on that. ----