I wonder whether NED would be better off teaming up with a pre-existing more "marketed" site. More footfall is critical to what is happening, even if that footfall is regarded as less discerning. To be honest I think we are all doing about as much as could be expected. New members seem to dip in on occasion but rarely stay. This is fine if there are a lot of them, but there aren't!

I'm not so familiar with what is happening with NED and its overall objectives. I don't mind the new NED description, though we need perhaps to demonstrate some collaborations, to show we are doing what we say we are doing.

On the various points:

1. Could be useful but again needs footfall on the site to be really valuable.
2. I feel we have done quite a lot from the Uganda sub-conference we did, which I have documented in various places. Not sure how many are interested in this, though.
3. An obvious solution, if money is available to do this.
4. TO some extent I think the contests have been hijacked on other contest sites. I was looking at a recent contest and amazed how bland most of the projects were, so few radical solutions and much "me too". And these projects win through weight of numbers, not through quality of project. If we could run contests, which were not "vote orientated", I think it would encourage more radical thinking. Contests do attract people and could be useful to gain more collaborators, though it would likely attract the gold diggers too.
5. The picture issue is the most irritating. I can't believe how difficult it is to post pictures here. On blogspot.com it's easy, here it's not. With more pictures, I guarantee we would get more visitors.
6. I would revamp the reputation system to something keyed into actual social entrepreneurial activity or specific help for ongoing projects. We need to understand that a member of NED with a little bit of rep can be misleading and is no guarantee of good character, integrity or even knowledge of social enterprise.
7. Yep - time for an upgrade, though it's not so fast here in Uganda right now.

I agree too to tie into the Nedspace brand. Am not too sure why this is not happening as yet.

How too can we at NED add value to the bigger sites (like Razoo) or organisations, such as Ashoka. Ashoka/Echoing Green etc. fellows are often in the category of "new social entrepreneurs" and many are looking for collaborators or possibly NED tools. Finding this distinctiveness could be the helpful missing link.

I personally am very happy to see this thread. I have a great deal of sentimental attachments to ned and would really like to see it develop into a hub for orgs like us to gather, collaborate, share ideas, etc.

It does need some updating though to bring it into the realm of today's online environment.

LiA USA uses ned a lot using a private group for our meetups and to discuss our private issues. no one sees these posts but us. But, we want to start using ned as a public forum more. We actually haven't done too much of that since there just wasn't the participation. It was frustrating to post on a thread and have only us look at it. When I was in Uganda even Grace noted to me that she didn't see the point of posting on ned since it was only us that was reading it or commenting. But if we could develop the site where we were drawing in people, we would definitely use it more. I think a lot of people would.

It was wonderful to see the collaboration that took place on the mushroom project. We need more like that and I love the idea of running occasional contests that ARE NOT like Razoo and awarded just on numbers but on merit and viability.

What can we do to help?

Already I have seen the sighs of some good things happening here and there, where as Ned has been thinking of how to bring new look to the site, we in Uganda have been also thinking of revising our name and possibly editing some aims and objectives. So am very happy and positive to the new ideas that can make our site attractive to other people, And with these action points, if we stick to it, NED will achieve more than it has. In the passed more especially we the local communities, we used to get discouraged when no body responds to your initiatives and this puts some one off the site.

I think the notification features are very important here, like if one wants to pass on some information, say a link to a new discussion, there should be a way this can be passed on at once to members other than posting a link to another discussion or sending to one person at go, its very hard to pass on information to all members using these systems. May be its there but still not know.

About periodic contest for small Biz/project support, this is would be another pull factor to this site and that should be a special one but also there should be that, that is ordinary one, where there is opportunity for people to upload projects on the site, and if contributors feel the project is worthy, they donate to it, though people may just begin uploading projects, such projects may be given certain period of time, say four months for it to get fully funded. If not money refunded to the contributors then person thinks of another project. That is for now but if there is where we need to help from uganda and we can,yes we shall.

Thanks for kicking this discussion off Christina, very curious to see what others think as well.

Ben, some valuable additional thoughts, and I'll break down some along the lines you did too, covering Christina's and yours in the 7 points/things.

1. FTF training as it relates to the site and shows people how to use it will hope to create more users and people that have spent FTF time together. Both real world and online integration.
2. The Ned Social Entrepreneur Unconference and Ugandan connection was an interesting experiment, and may have given way to an idea for an interesting an unusual business model. Uganda as a whole is pretty tied into ned.com
3. Money, social media, promotions, giveaways and unleashing certain creative things
4. Very, very, very low dollar either contest, or collaborations, or project funding. Akin to the o/net Mini Action Network that did things from $250 to under $1,000 range. Though collaborative and crowdsourced funding models still appeals greatly to me.
5. I believe Jim may have a solution for this.
6. Yeah, there must be a way to do SOMETHING significantly more interesting with the reputation/point system.
7. Yes, I think a rebrand of Ned, as aligned in some way with ned.com, NedSpace, NedWater and future Ned related orgs could make a load of sense.

Ben said >>How too can we at NED add value to the bigger sites (like Razoo) or organisations, such as Ashoka. Ashoka/Echoing Green etc. fellows are often in the category of "new social entrepreneurs" and many are looking for collaborators or possibly NED tools. Finding this distinctiveness could be the helpful missing link.<<

Evvy said >>It was wonderful to see the collaboration that took place on the mushroom project. We need more like that and I love the idea of running occasional contests that ARE NOT like Razoo and awarded just on numbers but on merit and viability. What can we do to help?<<

Love it.

Ashoka, Echoing Green, Omidyar, Skoll, Social Edge all tend to want much more mature ideas and business models. I think ned.com might be the place where early stage ideas, people and models come to grow, share, collaborate and get early, early support. If that's the direction we go, we will have to accept not all idea and things will work. Looking at Lost in the FOOD CHAIN as an early version of that, some things were picked out and taken to the next level by ON, Stop Genocide Now, Atlas Service Corps, Made By Survivors. So there is need for a early stage stomping ground, tho part of our success will eventually lead to the orgs moving "upstream". I for one am totally okay with that, I love the early stage idea and trying to figure out how to make it work.

Bringing in more ready to go, early stage, innovative and interesting ideas would be great.

Peter said >>the notification features are very important here<<

Going point Peter.

Peter also said >>About periodic contest for small Biz/project support, this is would be another pull factor to this site<<

Agreed Peter. I think smaller scale project funding could be very, very interesting.

Certainly offering a sort of "project mentoring" at NED for radical or off the wall new "ideas projects" might be new and complementary to the larger sites. Example being Butterfly, of course, but also any projects that Butterfly might spawn from the young members of it.

I think this discussion has come in at the right time, sure as Evvy has said above, I had almost given up all efforts in trying to post anything on Ned.com, because whenever you start up a discussion, the whole thing was looking like it was our LIA team only who would respond to a post(discussion) making it very difficult to know if your ideas were okay or not,because it's just the same people talking about it.

It looks exciting seeing the support that has been given on the mushroom project , gives more courage for all of us to think that Ned is taking a new direction.Not of course forgetting the support that was given to me when I had personal problems!Thanks to everyone.

I know Ned.com is so much like the Omidyar , is there something that we have missed out that use to keep us together and bring more people at omidyar? I remember we were also able to raise some good money for our offices both in Gulu and Kampala through omidyar, which means it's also possible to raise some reasonable amount of money here, and not just raising money , we could also draw more people with more ideas here.

1- maybe we who are already here need to be more active even on discussions which are not directly related to us and invite our friends from other sites to join in.I know some people have been doing this but most of us haven't.

2- also many have lost the idea of giving feed backs to one another however good a person would have given their contributions, these feed backs, I feel are also kind of motivating.

I know this is not all that we need, but it has to begin with us who are here now and am sure the rest will follow!

Ben said >>"project mentoring" at NED for radical or off the wall new "ideas projects" might be new and complementary to the larger sites<<

Zactly. When the Pepsi Refresh and Chase US Giving campaigns go, it almost always becomes all about the money, and of course that is something most every business entity and person would like more of. However, lack of money often times opens up the doors to more creative solutions and opportunities. And when a theme might become more about mentoring and support, people may become engaged and involved in deeper and more meaningful ways...focused on outcomes, opportunities, connections, results...and not just cash money.

Grace said >>remember we were also able to raise some good money for our offices both in Gulu and Kampala through omidyar, which means it's also possible to raise some reasonable amount of money here, and not just raising money , we could also draw more people with more ideas here.<<

I think little bits of money is a swell thing. Little bits, mini-action style in the $250-$1,000 range. Just a little bit of money, combined with the desire to collaborate and operate openly, combined with peoples willingness to mentor and share ideas...could be a pretty near thing.

Grace said >>1- maybe we who are already here need to be more active even on discussions which are not directly related to us and invite our friends from other sites to join in.I know some people have been doing this but most of us haven't.<<

Agreed. Though on the other hand, a conversation (discussion thread) without an outcome, timeline or end in site might feel pointless to some.

Grace said >>2- also many have lost the idea of giving feed backs to one another however good a person would have given their contributions, these feed backs, I feel are also kind of motivating.<<

Funny. For all the kvetching (worrying) about the point system at o/net, it has kind of not created contention here...which is good. Then again, I think the point system (and open tagging system) could be put to more interesting use too.

Mass Challenge, pretty neat: http://mclaunch.eventbrite.com/

site link: http://www.masschallenge.org/

edit: added site link

Great Thread! Strange for me, I was speechless ;-)

Mark and Ben's exchange:

Ben said >>"project mentoring" at NED for radical or off the wall new "ideas projects" might be new and complementary to the larger sites<<

Zactly. When the Pepsi Refresh and Chase US Giving campaigns go, it almost always becomes all about the money, and of course that is something most every business entity and person would like more of. However, lack of money often times opens up the doors to more creative solutions and opportunities. And when a theme might become more about mentoring and support, people may become engaged and involved in deeper and more meaningful ways...focused on outcomes, opportunities, connections, results...and not just cash money.

Seems really important. Ben expressed something that I'm quite concerned about mostly because money is something I don't have much of. Contests which are all about money are annoying. When you don't have much money the dozens of requests for donations to very worthy projects we all get weekly seem to add up to a big burden--at least that's how I react.

I was talking to my friend David Pohl recently. He's an illustrator and an artist in Pittsburgh. David is much more plugged into the local non-profit scene, especially where it intersects the arts. One of his recent public art pieces was a spirograph drawing of Ganesh. The art scene in Pittsburgh right now is very vibrant, a public good that my friend avails himself and feels good about. But as someone who creates graphic arts and art for his living it poses a dilemma. Many of the art works artists create are costly to produce even without counting time. The artists are rarely compensated for their participation in shows. And the local market for selling art is not very good. Anyhow the discussion turned then to the issue of Online production.

Mark's point about online connection and collaboration producing "results...and not just cash money" is essential. Money is awfully important, but it's also superficial. But once the possibility of results not necessarily aligned with money is grokked that doesn't seem to necessarily lead to an appreciation of the motives, needs and goals of online producers and curators. It seems very important to dredge up from a more or less unconscious level "what's in it for me" when it's not money (necessarily).

I have no problem resetting the reputation points. But I do have a problem in thinking that the reputation points are somehow trivial. I don't think that they are because they are one of the few features online which explicitly address the significance of online producers and curators. The reputation system is quite valuable in my opinion.

David Sasaki of Global Voices wrote a recent piece about curators of Twitter news. Lots of interesting ideas in the post, but one observation seems particularly relevant: Twitter is is main news feed source these days. That's not quite so for me, but Twitter is a lot more important that I imagined it would be. I do think that some sort of "status update" feature here would be good. But I'm not at all sure what the right model of it might be.

One approach would be to have the everybody's updates available to everybody rather than have people have to opt in to follow. One obvious drawback to that is Spammers hijacking the system. There are questions too whether user's Twitter posts could also be sent to the feed. Still a feed of updates is something that I do think would be very valuable here.

Ceris started Orgalyzer which I thought a swell idea, but it hasn't seemed to gain traction. But I mention it because there are all sorts of software applications for status updates or microblogging which might be able to be incorporated into Ned. Even if they cannot be used, it seems worthwhile to consider different models; the problem with "status updates" is that it tends to put people in the frame of mind of Facebook, and I don't really think that's the appropriate model for here. ShoutEm is what runs Ceris' site. But Delicious is an old and venerable site whose model and even API might be considered.

Bottom line, I think that Ned providing "news you can use" everyday will do much to revitalize the site. So I think that the issue of status updates is really quite important.

Mark's links to Mass Challenge rock!

So I mentioned my conversation with my friend David. Something I remarked upon--in relation to Facebook--was that I always try to be honest about myself online. David laughed and maybe even remarked, "Too honest." But there is a culture aspect of Ned which is very important and which grows out of the history of this site that entails radical transparency. Culture isn't transmitted forward in some sort of step by step line. Nevertheless as Ned goes forward, the culture here is a great value. The expectations of transparency here are not for everyone, but neither should we underestimate the value of the culture. Culture obviously isn't fixed, rather something that emerges and changes. But there are core values about how we should act here that are worth being explicit about. The culture has real value.

I don't have much to say right now. The posts so far are about an "incubator" function for new social ventures looking for a niche in the system the way it works now.

As some of you know, I am more interested in ways that we, as a community, both on-line and locally, can develop new options - new ways of organizing ourselves - and that requires a conversation across interest and expertise.

We can't replace Pierre's money as the draw for lots of people with lots of different interests, which was the attractive feature of O.net, but there may be a way to attract people to participate in an effort to move beyond discussion of individual and group interests to our interests as a community.

David said >>and that requires a conversation across interest and expertise.<<

A great quote from a co-founder of InnoCentive

Alph Bingham: 95% of innovative solutions come from people in the long tail of informal creatives,not established experts

I like these ideas! Thank you Christina for leading me here. I am very glad that there are thoughts on how to revitalise our cool space still rolling.

I very much like what Braden has been posting about communities. I feel it is important for anyone to ask themselves a few questions( I know you have asked yourselves ofcourse): What are the pooling factor/s? It is sad that majority will be pooled by money or a big name around it. Whom are the desirable members? "co-workers" really underscores a certain interested group. What are the sustainability issues, both of lasting cohesion and the platform itself? As much as Ned has been there people have come, reservedly posted and disappeared. What has gone wrong? Has the GFC been a factor?

As much as people work really they want fun, methinks. So could it also be possible for a creation of a room for fun in a way that it does not interfere with creative biz?

Where I come from (thirdworld of course) i can see two groups of net-users: the unstable/opportunity-seekers (scummers, elovers, job-hunters, funds-seekers,etc) and the stable (learners, fun-seekers, employees/project owners, etc) The latter group could be more reliable in the case here but still a marjority of the former group could possibly be resourceful in many ways too. Interestingly enough it is the people from across the divide that will act as the core determinants of how thirdworlders react and this makes my point very weak in the face of the huge role that YOU must play. But we must meanwhile start posting regularly and on different threads.

Your points will work marvelously Mark and Christina!

Can this space be open for certain businesses to place advertisements?

Inspired by the positive response to these ideas, and by all the folks who've said "how can I help?" I've created a workspace that includes the concrete commitments Mark and I have made to making this change happen, broken down into bitesized pieces that are scheduled out over the next 30, 60 and 90 days.

If you want to help, please go there and think about adding actions that you can commit to! http://www.ned.com/group/ned/ws/ repositioning/

My thinking is that if we each take on little pieces of making this change happen, then 90 days down the line we're bound to make some good progress.

Headed to Oxford tomorrow for the rest of the week to participate in the OxfordJam. Looking forward to checking back in here when I return.

All very good stuff here. Safe travels Christina. More thoughts and tweaking the ned.com Front Porch statement.

Does it work together?

Maybe.

Excellent wording, Mark.

Thnx Jon. The first sentence was crafted by Christina and myself via Skype chat...the last four sentences, well...that was the o/net message. I do kinda like them both together myself.

Love it!

How soon can we get that up?

It is now up and live on the main page. Got to admit, it's much better than what's been there for two years.

Saw it! Was just thinking about maybe creating a page called Why Ned that we might link to right under the blurb. Maybe a discussion thread that people could comment on. Been thinking a lot about an intro...

or could it be a workspace?

Is this what open community collaboration looks like?

>>about maybe creating a page called Why Ned that we might link to right under the blurb. Maybe a discussion thread that people could comment on. Been thinking a lot about an intro...or could it be a workspace?<<

Could even be a discussion thread that offers a lead in paragraph or two and/or asks people to introduce themselves.

>>Is this what open community collaboration looks like?<<

I guess it looks like this...and is an ongoing process, like so much else.